2
6 Comments

How Does Selling Before You Build Affect Your Business's Reputation?

In order to validate your product before you build it many people advocate for attempting to sell it first. Different people have different ideas about what this means. Obviously the strongest interpretation is to actually get people to give you money before the product exists - selling nothing more than the idea. This feels like a pretty tall order and, given that most ideas aren't going to make the cut, it's a lot to ask of your audience to validate your ideas repeatedly. So, for anyone out there who is actually attempting to collect money before you have built anything: How and where are you collecting money and has this affected your reputation?

For example, if you're accepting preorders and you get a couple hundred but it's not enough to justify building an expensive product then I assume that you refund your customers. But, it's fairly likely that those people are in your target audience for your next idea. Do they get sick of you canceling their orders, feel betrayed, or lose faith at some point? If you're protecting yourself from loss of reputation by creating new brands for each product idea then what's it costing you to spin up new brands? If you're using crowd funding then are you asking people to sign up for a crowd funding platform from your ads and is it working? Glancing at Kickstarter, it looks like most software projects are not hitting funding goals.

TBQH, my intuition is that for most small shops, asking people to pay before anything has been created is not actually going to work unless you have an established reputation and audience and that asking your audience repeatedly for validation of ideas that you abandon is going to damage your reputation. What do you think?

  1. 1

    I asked chatgpt

    There are many examples of successful companies that sold their idea before the product existed, before build started. By 'sold' chatgpt did not interpret this as a payment made in all cases.

    Here are a few examples:

    Free, with a constraint. SaaS later. Intitial funding was not from subscribers.

    • Dropbox: The founders of Dropbox created a 3-minute video explaining their product idea before they even built the product. They shared the video on the internet and got over 75,000 sign-ups in one night, which helped validate their idea and secure initial funding.
    • Instagram: Before Instagram launched, the founders created a landing page with a video explaining their product idea and asking people to sign up for early access. The page generated thousands of sign-ups, which helped validate their idea and generate interest in their product.

    Commission

    • Airbnb: The founders of Airbnb sold their idea of a home-sharing platform by creating a simple website and taking professional photos of their own apartment. They used these photos to attract early adopters and secure funding to build the platform.
    • Groupon: Groupon sold their idea of a daily deals platform by creating a simple WordPress site and emailing their friends with daily deals. The idea took off and helped validate the market potential for the platform.
    • Square: Square, a mobile payment platform, sold their idea of a credit card reader that could be used with a smartphone by creating a simple video that explained the concept. The video helped generate interest in the product and secure initial funding.
    • Mailchimp: Mailchimp, an email marketing platform, sold their idea of an easy-to-use email marketing tool by creating a simple landing page and offering a free trial. The page generated significant interest and helped validate the market potential for the product.
    • Indiegogo: Indiegogo, a popular crowdfunding platform, sold the idea of a new way to fund creative projects before it even existed. By sharing their vision for a platform that allowed anyone to raise money for their project, they were able to secure initial funding and launch their product.

    Physical Item

    • Pebble: Pebble launched a Kickstarter campaign to fund their smartwatch before the product was even built. The campaign raised over $10 million, which helped fund the development of the product and validate its market potential.
    • Warby Parker: Warby Parker, a popular eyewear brand, sold their idea of affordable, stylish glasses by creating a simple landing page and offering a free try-on program. The page generated thousands of sign-ups, which helped validate their idea and secure initial funding.
    • Tesla: Before Tesla built their first electric car, they started by selling their idea to investors and customers. By sharing their vision for a sustainable, high-performance electric car, they were able to secure funding and generate interest in their product.
    • Oculus VR: The founders of Oculus VR sold the idea of a virtual reality headset to investors and gamers before they even built a working prototype. This helped them raise initial funding and generate buzz for their product.
    • Nest: Nest, a smart home company, sold their idea of a learning thermostat by creating a simple video that explained the concept. The video helped generate interest in the product and secure initial funding.

    These examples show that selling your idea before the product exists can be a successful strategy for validating your product concept and securing initial funding.

    I use dealroom.co if I want to understand what funding a startup received and their business model adoption.

  2. 1

    Kickstarter, Patron is different. They are transparent around intent and purpose. If you misuse these vehicles then expect a loss of reputation.

    Kickstarter you need to be transparent with your budget. If you failed in your budgeting you can explain that. If you failed in assumptions you made, you can explain that.

    if you're accepting preorders

    • If you accept preorders without a condition you need to deliver. If one cannot deliver then a candid conversion that is transparent is required. You may get excused for this once, max twice by your followers. Depending on your reputation.
    • If the reason given for refund is 'the quorum was not reached (sufficient preorders)' and this was not stated upfront as the dependency to proceed or not -- I personally would certainly see you as not very experienced. Even that is excused once in indie world. Be transparent and candid and you can preserve the faith the pre-sales has put in you.

    If you're protecting yourself from loss of reputation by creating new brands for each product idea then what's it costing you to spin up new brands?

    • Failure is not bad. Failure is great, an opportunity to learn fast.
    • Repeated failure of the same thing is a different story. You know what they say "doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different results" = insanity
    • Any protecting of anything is inauthentic and that will definitely cost more than hit on the credibility.

    I did read your post, and am shaking my head. Why on earth make it soo complicated? Why not be true to self, build in public, course-correct with feedback from early adopters? Not a tough exercise. It does take courage.

    1. 1

      Hey, thanks for taking the time to read and respond. I think that we agree that transparency is the way to go. I guess the question is - does anybody actually sell a small SaaS before they build while also being fully transparent? Is it actually something that's worth pursuing or should we settle for weaker forms of validation like getting people to sign up on an email wait list?

      If I clicked on a promotion and went to a mocked up product landing page and it said, "We haven't decided if we're going to build this, but please pre-order now and we'll refund you if we decide not to build it" then I definitely would not pre-order. If they asked me to go signup for Kickstarter and donate money to their crowd funding campaign I wouldn't do that either. On the other hand, if someone had already made a commitment to build something then I might consider giving them money in either of those cases but that's not validation through selling because we're committing to building the thing already.

      1. 1

        As you have articulated it is about value received or if no value then trust in the commitment. This is not distinct to building apps. It is this way -- for whatever a person wishes to create and sell. Yes, you cannot abuse kickstarter, patron, promotion or any mechanism and be deluded it will not impact your reputation.

        I just don't get why it is complicated for you. (sorry) I keep feeling like there is an important back story so we really get your point.

        weaker forms of validation

        From my short time on IH I see "what" is actual validation sorely misunderstood. Reality check is needed as marketing guff has caused some nonsense.

        • LP signup is not idea validation. It is an indicator of traffic. or it is validation of the SEO if the traffic came from google search. Whoever convinced the indies that LP landing is a genuine validation tool is not a business person. Perhaps a marketeer. Crazy stuff like this is unhelpful in my book. Misleads.
        • Newsletter signup is also not 'idea validation'. Newsletter signup validates curious citizens exist about your content domain or indicates citizens have bookmarked your page to action later or citizen watching your space and monitoring trends. Aka nothing about using a product or buying a product.
        • Idea validation can only be done when the "idea" has been experienced. Take it literally. We can experience the idea via prototyping, via a micro portion of the whole solution.
        • Idea validation is distinct from a vision, or a concept. Idea validation teases out a vision, concept and places it in a context so that citizens can experience something.
        • Idea validation just needs 1 user to sense-check the idea in their context. If the developer needs their solution, then idea validated. But if developer will not use their own app, please find another human who would want to use their app, and who is willing to sense-check.

        does anybody actually sell a ..before they build while also being fully transparent?

        absolutely. ChatGPTis the on-mass example. Not only is the world experiencing this revolutionary technology, we are experiencing 'Building in Public" on mass. All citizens can be part of the journey. Sure you need to pay for dependability e.g. chatgpt plus subscription. Paying that nothing in compared to its instant value. It transformed how I work in 1 day. No video needed, I just started playing. Paying the subscription is not a pre-order as I am getting instant value. I think of it like a donation as super happy to support and have the good fortune to be part of such a moment in history.

        OpenAI released early, buggy, still building as they purposely wanted to alter the design based on the collective. The long podcast by Lex speaks to this. "Sam Altman: OpenAI CEO on GPT-4, ChatGPT, and the Future of AI | Lex Fridman Podcast #367"
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_Guz73e6fw

        relevant to small SaaS

        If the SaaS is resolving a process issue that is common to many businesses -- that works if the 'small' is complete part of the process e.g. micro. Like POS. Like Audit. It is actually how ERP evolved back in the day. CRM too. CRM started as pure lead generation + contact, then expanded from there to full B2B, B2C and NFP options.

        If someone had already made a commitment to build something then I might consider giving them money in either of those cases but that's not validation through selling because we're committing to building the thing

        Yes, you are correct. This is not idea validation. This is called engagement management.

        1. 1

          I think the part of my question that's confusing you is selling to validate a product before you build anything. ChatGPT is an existing product, so they are validating something that has already been at least partially built. A SaaS that resolves a small but complete process must exist in some capacity, right? Meaning that it should be already built. And, if I'm going to sell something and then learn from those failures then I must have built something to begin with, right? If I'm going to course correct then I must have something built to evaluate, right?

          I understand the argument for building an MVP and then selling that. But, there are a bunch of people out there who advocate for actually selling before you have built anything to validate the product, and I don't see how that specifically can actually work for brands that are launching their first product without being unethical.

          1. 1

            I see. Your understanding of building in public and mine differ.

            ChatGPT is not a finished product. Its in an iteration. Building in public is you launch early, build the rest of product, iterate, embedding public feedback.

            there are a bunch of people out there who advocate for actually selling BEFORE you have built anything to validate the product... brands that are launching their first product without being unethical.

            Nope in terms of being unethical. OpenAI is a brand. OpenAI founders could seek funding for another AI thing that has not started the first line of code (e.g. no build). They can do this as they have a reputation. This is not idea validation. This is either engagement management (if for a business) or investing. But not unethical.

            yes, the points of what is idea validation and what is not idea validation are the key.
            yes, MVP, one has built something.

            In order to validate your product before you build it many people advocate for attempting to sell it first.

            This sentence is not communicating "idea validation" to me. It is using validate in terms of 'proof of concept' / 'prototype' e.g. "validate your product". In your post, I would of stated your observation upfront so use simple-ones can get what you are asking or seeking viewpoints on.

Trending on Indie Hackers
Passed $7k 💵 in a month with my boring directory of job boards 53 comments Reaching $100k MRR Organically in 12 months 35 comments How I got 1,000+ sign-ups in less than a month with social media alone 19 comments 87.7% of entrepreneurs struggle with at least one mental health issue 14 comments How to Secure #1 on Product Hunt: DO’s and DON'Ts / Experience from PitchBob – AI Pitch Deck Generator & Founders Co-Pilot 12 comments Competing with a substitute? 📌 Here are 4 ad examples you can use [from TOP to BOTTOM of funnel] 10 comments