Selling a $1M+ ARR business, but struggling to find product-market fit with his next product. Valentin Pichard shares his journey.

Valentin Pichard (AKA Pichou) built a multi-million-dollar company right out of university, sold it, and now he's building something new.

It's growing, but finding product-market fit hasn't been easy the second time around.

I caught up with him to understand how he's approaching product-market fit, how to harness network effects, and the difficulties inherent to a second business. 👇

You can't bring Business #1's success with you

James: I think a lot of people assume that once you build one successful business, the next one is cake. What do you say to that?

Pichou: I talked to a successful entrepreneur once who completely failed to make his second startup a success despite a great idea, a great team, and great fundraising.

The explanation was pretty simple: Every startup is completely different and you really can't apply what you did in one project to another.

James: How so?

Pichou: Your second project will target another audience with another solution because otherwise, what's the fun? Then whatever your precedent successes or experiences, you are back to ground zero! You are back to struggling to find your target and position.

James: So there's no advantage at all?

Pichou: What you will be able to leverage is your network, this is something that stays forever. That is why the sooner you start your entrepreneurial life, the better!

James: How did your network help you?

Pichou: Experts will help you on the technical side, backers will help you raise funds through their own network of business angels, and people working for your target will obviously help you sell.

James: How did you build your network?

Pichou: To build your network, you mustn't be shy and don't hesitate to interact in any way you can, even with people who seem inaccessible to you.

For example, in the world of 3D, for me, there were two French stars with impressive entrepreneurial backgrounds. I met one of them because we were discussing technical subjects on a forum, and I ended up asking to meet him. I met the other because he was selling his company and I knew that a good friend of mine was working on the sales process. Both became friends and helped us a lot in Naker's journey.

James: How do you turn random people into a network?

Pichou: Talk about what you're working on and explain why it's important or cool. Show these people that they can help you move forward. And show that you care about them. Be honest and give back whenever you can.

I've also found it very useful to be in a startup incubator because it allows you to meet tons of people — especially in a place like StationF where there are 1,000 startups.

Growing and selling his first company

James: Ok, let's rewind. You sold your first company in 2020. How did that happen?

Pichou: While I was a student in 2015, I co-founded a company called Homadata, which was a real estate big data company. It was making more than $1 million in annual sales with a team of 12 people when it sold.

James: How did you grow it to that level?

Pichou: We were good at selling big contracts to big corporations. We also had an excellent team of engineers and developers who managed to create entirely new algorithms using machine learning (which was quite new at the time) and the results were really impressive. Our APIs were able to give very precise price estimates on the real estate market and predictions that no other tool could do at the time.

As we targeted big real estate companies and banks, we used our network and a bit of LinkedIn in order to meet with the right people at the right time.

How he left his first company

James: You left Homadata right before it sold. Why?

Pichou: I wanted to do something else — I discovered 3D and all the possibilities it offers.

James: What did it sell for?

Pichou: I am not sure I can give you the exact number but it was several million.

I didn't have many shares. I was a student when we created the company, and I did not have much money to invest.

James: Did your shares get diluted, or what happened?

Pichou: We had investors right from the start, for around $130k. My co-founder was older than me, with more experience and a wider network, which he approached for funding. As I was a student in Paris, I really needed a salary and it was more comfortable for everyone like that.

We were able to hire two more people, and it was easier to apply for financing from a French public investment bank thanks to this initial funding.

Later, we did a real fundraising round (around $500k) which diluted my shares again.

James: So when it sold, you got some money but not a huge amount. Did you use that to fund your new business?

Pichou: It definitely helped a lot. Naker would probably already have been closed if I hadn't invested part of what I earned from the Homadata sale. I didn't invest it all at once, but a little along the way, and when necessary. This allowed us to be flexible in managing our cash flow.

It also helped convince other investors, knowing that I, myself, was committing money on a personal basis.

How to seek funding

James: You co-founded Naker a few years ago. What is it?

Pichou: Naker simplifies and automates the creation of images, videos, and interactive experiences of any product based on their 3D model.

James: How much is it bringing in?

Pichou: Currently doing around $5k MRR with a team of 5 people.

James: What's your stack?

Pichou: Everything has been made using Typescript language. My favorite frameworks are BabylonJS Engine for the 3D part and React Spectrum for everything related to interface creation.

James: Is it funded?

Pichou: Yes, $50k from the co-founders, $350k private investment, and $250k in public funding

James: How did you get funding?

Pichou: You know the saying "Ask for money, get advice. Ask for advice, get money twice"?

That is what worked best for us. So we met with people who:

• Work or have worked in the industry we are targeting
• Are experts in the technology we are using and develop
• Started a company doing things complementary to what we do
• Work close to our target companies or even in the companies

Then the day we were ready to fundraise, we contacted every person we met who had helped us or advised us. As they already knew our story, our progress, and our vision, it was easier to convince them. But it wasn't always enough.

How to juggle a side hustle

James: You've got a side hustle too — FuryPage. Why split your attention?

Pichou: It's a no-code tool to create experiential landing pages using 3D effects. I just love all the possibilities that bring 3D online and it is just too much fun to explore what we can do with it. I wanted to see how far we could get and what kind of landing pages we could build thanks to 3D Engines.

James: Why is 3D such a passion for you?

Pichou: The Internet should be fun and I think there is a lack of creativity nowadays because the tools available to us do not permit us to be creative.

James: Do you always tend to have a side hustle?

Pichou: I had one with my first company too. It was an online game called Wazana. It didn't have any revenue because I made it completely open, but it had 10k subscribers. For me, it was just a fun thing to do and I didn't plan to monetize it.

Eventually, I see myself as a serial entrepreneur using my free time to continue to innovate.

James: How do you juggle two companies?

Pichou: It is actually pretty simple. Whether it was when I was building Wazana beside Homadata or today with FuryPage beside Naker, I had the same organization.

There is my main project (Homadata and now Naker) to which I dedicate all my weekdays. And there is my side hustle (Wazana and now FuryPage) to which I dedicate my nights and weekends when I am free.

I have a different email address for each project. I have two Chrome windows almost always open where I keep all the things I need for each project. When I switch from one project to another, I hide one window and show the other one.

And I really like the Airtable tool, which I use a lot to organize things. For Naker, I could even say that the whole life of the company is represented by the various Airtable databases we use every day.

How to find product-market fit

James: Ok, back to Naker. Let's talk about what challenges you're facing.

Pichou: The biggest challenge is definitely to find and focus on the right target. Despite my experience, I can't seem to solve this problem. I'm not sure there's a good formula for it.

James: So product-market fit (PMF)? What have you been doing to find it?

Pichou: A lot of tests and learning took place, which obviously led to some pivots along the way.

3D is complex and 3D online is pretty new. We can't say it isn't working as we have a very powerful tool, a great team, and big companies using our product. Yet, I don't think this is enough to say we have reached PMF.

James: How do you define PMF?

Pichou: For me, PMF is the point where you don't need to market the product anymore for it to grow and scale. This is when the solution you built becomes so good that word of mouth, communities, and ambassadors just do the work for you.

It matters because it is about the "why" and the "how" of what you built. Why do you want to solve this problem and why should people follow you? When you are the founder, you are sure your idea will change the world, but what about everyone else?

If you can't manage to get people on board with you, you will never find PMF.

James: How will you know if you find it?

Pichou: It really depends on the market and the solution, but I think that for Naker, we could start talking about PMF when we have a new customer every 3 months with weekly use of the platform. By comparison, a tool like FuryPage, which is more accessible, would need one new customer a day with daily use.

James: You found PMF with Homadata — why are you having trouble finding it with Naker?

Pichou: With Naker, it's more complex because the market we're targeting is fairly new, as are the technologies. So we have to spend a lot of time explaining and educating potential customers about how our solution can help them. But it's getting better all the time.

We're one of the first to bring this kind of new solution to market, so we'll also be the first to benefit from it once it gains momentum.

James: Every startup is different, like you said. Where can people find you?

Pichou: You can find me on Twitter or check out Naker and FuryPage.

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