I made 4 cold calls, then gave up...
Hi indie hackers!
This story is a little embarrassing, but should give you some perspective into building a B2B SaaS (and some entertainment).
For some background, I've been indie hacking (and freelancing) for 6 months now. I've only built consumer-facing products so far because that's what I relate to most.
I've been wanting to try building a B2B product because I hear they're generally easier to grow and generate revenue from.
Last week I got an idea to create a tool that helps coffee shops increase their profit margins. It would track the cost of goods from their supplier and integrate with their POS system to get sales and revenue data. Then it would show how profitable certain items are to help coffee shop owners with product and business decisions.
Here's the landing page I quickly spun up if you're curious.
I decided in order to validate this idea, I would call a few coffee shops and gauge interest before building the product. I compiled a list of 50 coffee shops in Brooklyn to do just that.
My plan was to call each of the coffee shops, try to get the contact info of the owner/manager and pitch my product from there.
Here is my script:
Opener:
“Hi, I’m Alex with BrewBudget. We help coffee shops increase their profit margins. Is the owner or manager in right now?”If no:
“Do you mind giving me the contact info of the owner or manager?”If no:
“In that case can you share our website with them? It’s just brewbudget.com”In case I need it:
“We offer a cost of goods tracking system that lets you record and analyze margins on your products so you can improve them over time.”
“Offer $199 lifetime access”
Now let me just say, I knew cold calling would be difficult for me because I'm an introverted gen-z who doesn't like to make any kind of phone call.
But I wanted to give it a shot to see if I could get any leads. I planned to give up if I made 100 calls and got 0 leads.
Well, I just made 4 calls and I'm already giving up. Not just because the calls weren't effective, but also because it's just too damn awkward.
I feel so bad calling these nice people on the phone, bothering them, shilling my product, and getting rejected.
On my 1st call, it was clear the person didn't want to talk to me, but responded to be nice.
My 2nd call angrily asked me, "Do you know what time it is in NY?" and hung up even though their shop was open according to Google Maps.
The 3rd call ended with the lady taking a message for the owner. I told her to check out my website. Dumb response, I know.
The 4th call told me the owner comes in around 10 or 11 am.
These calls didn't end too badly. But they made me feel bad. I just don't like being a burden on other people and making someone else's day worse.
I'm switching over to writing emails and sending IG messages. Most shops don't have either of these, but I assume I can still send these with higher volume than calling. Hopefully this will give me some data for validating the product idea.
Anyways, that's the story of how I learned I can't be a salesperson.
Have you built a B2B SaaS? How did you get your first customers?
So this is an interesting take... you're selling a SAAS to a coffee shop, where you can literally buy a coffee and stay there for a few hours to socialize.
The hack for this is, don't cold call coffee shops - but go into the shop, buy a coffee and if the owner is around - introduce yourself and ask how the business is doing. Mention you built a tool for Coffee Shops and would love to have them take a look and give it a try.
The worse that can happen is, they are busy - so I don't suggest to do this during busy hours (avoid lunch, morning rush, etc)
Usually the afternoon may be better when it's slower.
And have confidence in your product. You're there to help them, but you're also there because you need them more than they need you. They've been managing a coffee shop for months/years without your product, so how can you increase their productivity by 2x?
You’re totally right.
The problem for me is that I’m living out of Taipei right now (and for the next 6 months).
The product is not built yet, just trying to validate the idea, so that’s why I don’t have confidence in the product because it doesn’t exist yet.
The best place to test this is in Taipei.
You're locally there, so don't let that stop you from letting them be your testing customers.
Have them test the product first so you can make the product better and more optimized before heading to the states. Don't waste your time cold calling and feeling like you want to give up when you're in an area where coffee shops are abundant.
To validate the idea, start around your area where they can test it out first.
Indie hackers, as a general rule, are not built or advantageously-positioned for B2B businesses.
Especially B2B where your customers are offline/brick-and-mortar.
That's a double-whammy.
(B2B where your customers are online might be better, but your product better be self-serve, meaning $50/mo and below, not something that requires Zoom demos/salespeople).
I tried doing exactly what you did 5 years ago, in 2019.
I wrote about it briefly here.
I created a subscriptions platform for dental offices to sell subscriptions to their patients, and I also did the whole cold-calling thing -- plus, I also walked into dental offices to demo my product.
It was awkward and draining as hell to cold call.
You can feel that you're being disruptive, and you can tell the people on the other end of the line hated to talk to you.
It was obviously not sustainable, even if I manage to get 1 or 2 customers off those calls.
Absolutely not worth it.
Even if I manage to get some of them onboard, I'll need to actively call these people to keep the gravy train flowing, which means essentially I'll need a marketing co-founder.
Because who's going to build the product?
Building the product is already a full-time job, and it's stressful enough.
Your business doesn't suddenly just grow just because you've convinced a few people to pay, who's going to continue to cold-call while you're busy doing product development?
I hate to be negative about this, but plenty of indie hackers have talked about selling to offline businesses (including Patrick Mackenzie with Appointment Reminder), and the general consensus is don't do it, it's not worth it, there are plenty of other easier ways to build a business online.
Business is already hard enough, don't make it unnecessarily harder on yourself!
Thanks for the insight from your experiences! I’ll reconsider doing this project
If you're only at the validating stage, there's no sunk cost, I'd suggest testing out other ideas.
If you pay attention to the indie hackers who have gotten traction, most of them sell to customers who are:
Online/Work online
Solopreneurs/Single decision-maker
Very accessible through online channels like social, forums, email.
I wouldn't deviate from this winning formula for no good reason if I were you.
You're deviating from it 3-for-3.
Hey @alexanderqchen does your product work only for coffee shops or for restaurants too?
I'd love to know more about the product. Let me email you.
Hey Nakkeeran! I’m still just validating the idea, so don’t have a product yet. Theoretically should work for any business, just decided to target coffee shops specifically first since they’re a simpler use case.
Hey Alexander, let me point out a few things being in startup world especially focused on game dev.
As cheesy or cliche it may sound, I would point out that first things first, failure is crucial to success.
Secondly, I'm guessing you're the tech guy? If so, this feeling what you're experiencing is often normal for tech guys, who just can make the best cake in the world, but might not know how to sell like hot pancakes. Best example: Steve Jobs to Steve Wozniak.
Third, What tech stack do you plan to create this with, and are you full-time or part-time?
There's more but let's pause that for now.
---
I'm taking a break from game dev and exploring other things, just surfing around if I come across a cool product (or a cool person).. I would be interested in helping you out as a co-founder or partner if there's more to the project but I do think this could work, and I also, need to understand your product better.
Drop me your email if you're interested in something like this.
Hey karanveer!
Yes I’m a tech guy. Working on freelance and indie projects fulltime right now (and plan to for at least the next 6 months).
Was planning to build this in some form of react frontend and node backend just bc that’s what I’m most familiar with.
Happy to connect: [email protected]
Did you tried talk with client in person? For me I start by working with people whom I have connection with, friend of friend etc.
Man, if you are giving value don't be ashamed. Keep trying, it's the only way to gain confidence. Just keep trying.
Hi Alex,
I agree that cold calls can be daunting, especially if you think of it as bothering others. However, I truly think that if you can help someone increase profits, then that's not bothering at all!
I'm building a product called Bloombeaver, that could help you with your cold emails. You can search for businesses, add them as prospects, and reach out to them right from the app. And it's free to use at the moment.
Feel free to contact me if you have any questions!
Hey Alex,
Congrats on trying to start up something and going through tough cold calls.
However I believe you're jumping steps here into understanding if your solution is answering a problem.
I believe the first step is to go to your hometown ask a couple of coffee shops what's their biggest issue is and then think of a solution to their problem.
If your tracking API is the solution in that case your script isn't personalized enough and looks like a bot.
Make sure to address the coffee shop's name, start with a success story (fake or not), make sure you attract their attention through cold calls or emails to gain more traction from their behalf.
Start working for free with a couple of coffee shops in Taipei and show the difference of results, make testaments from those coffee shop owners on your website etc...
Phone them as you were there to help without selling anything ;)
Cheers,
Hey Alex,
I totally agree with you that b2b is the way - b2b is all I know and is much easier for me than b2c.
Also, great job getting out there and making those calls! It's tough. My first job was being an SDR and had to cold call AT LEAST 50 people a day.
To make it easier for yourself, try getting 'warm' leads that you can call.
What you can do to get warm leads is drive traffic to a lead magnet (preferred ) OR Mass email a list of at least 100 coffee shops (probably need more) with a link to your website. You should track who opens the email and who clicks the link. The ones that click the link, call them.
You can open the call with "hey, its alex I just wanted to follow up on the email I sent earlier about xyz" then let them reply and tweak your opener from there.
I co-founded mindbase with my brother and that's how we got our first contract.
Happy to share the email campaigns we used and a cold call script that might work for you if interested. You can also use chatgpt to come up with scripts and emails.
Just to make one thing clear - why you don’t like making these calls is not that you don’t want to be a burden to those people (that’s the story your brain comes up with to protect you feeling the pain of your biggest fear). You don’t like making these calls because it hurts to be rejected and rejection brings out the biggest fear in all of us - we’re not good enough and ultimately we’re not loved.. So I learned that this fear is unreasonable and when you learn that, too, you can change that fearful believe with a more empowering on: hey you’re calling them to help them out! You’re doing them a favor! You’re saving them money and making them more profitable, how lucky are they! If they still say no, it has nothing to do with you! Maybe it’s the wrong person you talked to, or maybe they just got divorced or or or… don’t make it about yourself. expect to call at leas 10 people until you get a meeting. Another rule -> NEVER sell in the call. Only awake interest. Focus on scheduling a meeting or a video call with a demo.
What if you changed your attitude from "I feel so bad calling these nice people on the phone, bothering them, shilling my product" to "I'm helping them grow their business"?