The job market is completely insane right now
Recruiters are destroying my inbox and the truth is that I'm like most people in the technology industry - I don't only care about improving the world. I need to feed myself and live comfortably too. As software engineers, we are no different than other people as far as our financial needs. We're here to put in a solid days work and improve our lives. And that requires money. Unfortunately, everything besides the money, i.e the technology, the people, ect. is just an ancillary benefit of work, but it doesn't drive the needle. At the end of the day, I need to be compensated fairly if I'm going to enjoy my work and also feel capable of doing.
Luckily the job market right now is stupid. I'm seeing offers in the high 6 figures for people with 1-2 years of experiences at Series A startups and I know for a fact FAANG is paying absurd salaries. There is simply an incredible demand for SWEs at the moment and there just aren't enough people with the skills to fill these roles.
This is what is making indie hacking tough for me. I want to build my own applications, but in this job market it just feels irresponsible to not be chasing the bag that is so clearly available (to a certain extent).
But don't get me started on the actual interview process. Leet code is solid, but let's be honest, a lot of people memorize these answers and are then easily able to ace these exams. I'm not confident there is a better substitute for testing a SWE's knowledge, but these interviews are really nothing more then an SAT. It is possible to study and cram for them and succeed. And I find that fact a bit disturbing.
Have you thought why are they willing to pay such high salaries?
I bet they'll still make a ton of money based on your work. Go build something on your own. Don't let the fat cats dominate the world.
I don't know man... Being on both sides, it kinda makes me want to go back to being a full time dev and almost being able to demand a crazy salary. Sometimes it feels like I'm being sucked dry :D
In general though, I agree with you.
Even though I know i could take advantage of the situation and find myself a well paid gig I’d still rather indie hack. For some people life isn’t all about the money. I appreciate the freedom I have to pursue my own ideas and who knows, it’s possible my business has a higher ceiling then the one that a FAANG can set for me.
This is the way to go!
Unpopular opinion from someone who has done both (Job + Indie Hacking). The shortest surest part to getting rich is working at Big Tech or a Big VC Money backed startup. If I could get past the bullshit leet code interviews in my preferred field I'd probably do it for a couple of years.
If you truly want financial freedom and are willing to sell your time/soul for it (temporarily) you can put in 2-5 years and come out with a solid safety nest and dry powder to go build something without having to worry about paying rent.
The optionality that experience will unlock will make your life much easier (in terms of your career be it working another job or Indie Hacking). Some benefits:
I agree. I've worked at "Big Tech" for the past 15 or so years (and some smaller companies before that), and I've found that if you can find the right team, it gives you a good combination of gaining skills, learning how to work with others, and putting money away for the long term.
Also, if you do end up at a Big Tech, you should make use of every benefit they provide as well. If they have a stock purchase program (like Microsoft does), max it out. Max out your 401k, etc. etc. Be smart with your money and invest what you can as well.
The tricky thing is finding a team you like and that doesn't require crazy hours, and that also has interesting and fulfilling work. The equation changes a lot once you have to work long hours or have to work on something mind-numbingly boring that isn't teaching you anything new.
My last company had an ESPP program and it was amazing haha. ROI is seriously so high and had virtually no risk (if you sell immediately after purchasing).
Exactly. It’s free money! I remember not making use of it for the first year of working at Microsoft and my friends telling me to get on it. One of the best decisions I made.
Seems like a workable strategy, and I know of people who do this.
Counter-point:
There are opportunity costs associated with this path, both financial and non-financial ones.
On the financial side of things, there's a good chance that, if you do it right, you'll reach an MRR equal to your FAANG salary (or close) after 5 years of hard work. So basically you end up in the same place. But during those 5 years, you would have been living your dream already, which means each dollar earned is more "passive" and more "profitable" from a quality of life standpoint.
On the non-financial side of things, you would have been picking up entrepreneurship skills for 5 years and solidifying your business acumen as a founder/CEO. If you quit a FAANG job after 5 years, you will have a tremendous nest egg, but you're starting from scratch in terms of the non-technical skills, like customer development and marketing/lead gen. I've even seen people burn through years' worth of savings with little to show for it.
I think it boils down to how much you believe in yourself.
Money/Runway is rarely the limiting factor in successfully bootstrapping a SaaS business IMO.
If you believe you have what it takes to make a FAANG salary on your own with your own 2 hands within 5 years, then the choice is stupidly simple.
The sheer freedom, autonomy, fulfillment, and self-actualization of running a bootstrapped solo SaaS will supersede any corporate perks offered by a FAANG company.
I think you are greatly simplifying the life of a bootstrapped solopreneur. The roller coaster ride is real. MRRs don’t just climb up. The down legs are painful and without a team it can be challenging to experience them again and again by yourself. For each growth phase you will need to reinvent your thinking and in turn yourself. I’m not saying it’s not worth it, but it’s worth noting these things and not painting a rosy picture. Finding product market fit by yourself is not for the faint hearted.
Anyone else never had a tech job? 😅
I lived off my first SaaS from 2011-2014 as a solo founder. It was Shopify for Groupon clones. I started it in my sophomore year in college and decided to drop out for that, once I saw that I could make a decent salary with my own 2 hands. The market sort of shrunk after that, but I had a good run and even saved quite a lot of money from there.
Had a change in career, explored so many different crazy career paths (while I was still young), and had the time of my life. I did some film, some modelling, even political fundraising.
Went back to indie hacking again in 2018, started another SaaS, bootstrapped it with a part-time bartending job, and now I'm again living off my SaaS.
There are people like us out there who probably wouldn't be able to get hired at normal tech jobs, but still nonetheless make a living from indie hacking full-time, while still living our dream life on a daily basis.
My point is money is great, but freedom is paramount. In fact, I'd say money is only 1/3 of the equation. To be truly happy and fulfilled, you need to make a lot of money, but also be able to work very little as and when you want, as well as anywhere you want... while still building tremendous equity in your own business that you can hopefully cash in on one day when the time is ripe.
I know some tech jobs have been offering these perks more and more (thus attracting more talent back to Big Tech companies), but that's a good thing.
People should pick their career path based on their priorities:
Money > Freedom, work a job.
Freedom > Money, indie hack.
And that's the bottom line... Cos Stone Cold said so! 😉
Lucky for you guys. I’m a Product Designer that code at the level of a Junior Software Developer and I get those recruiters messages but can’t seem to land a single job offer. I have launched my own successful startups in the past netting me 500k in five years and currently growing a new platform with about 400 users but can’t get pass the first interview at big companies. Recruiters often say that they forwarded my resume to the managers, but I have yet to make it to a second interview. Just a heads up. Some of us are indiehackers because no one wants to give us a shot.
Why bother with jobs?
You're already living the dream with your 6-figure businesses.
It's like you have a PhD already but somehow decided to enroll in a Bachelor's course again.
That was 2009 -2014. Also I like helping other companies think out of the box and accomplish their goals. It is also satisfying. I did this for Citigroup.
I'm certainly happy for the people getting that bag right now, but at least for me personally, it'd take a lot of convincing to get me to go back to full-time employment. I've been so much happier since I left my last job, and I have to assume a large part of that is that my body and brain (I'm autistic, ADHD and chronically ill) conspire to simply make me a poor fit for the typical 9-5.
Freelance work I find a lot more agreeable, but all else being equal, I much prefer working for myself to working for someone else, even if the money isn't as good.
Still, we shouldn't let ourselves forget how good we have it in this field 🙂. I probably wouldn't have the energy to even think about working on a side project if I had to work 40 hours a week just to pay rent, and the money in this field being so good is the only reason I now have the financial freedom to avoid that.
I had to stop myself from replying with a brash, off-the-cuff response here. (IDGAF blah blah blah)
The bag is available, but it might be worth examining why it feels irresponsible. The reality is, most tech jobs suck up time, energy, and intellectual property. Too hard to juggle that never-ending backlog of tickets with my own stuff, if my benevolent employers allow side-hustles (a lot don't).
High income is addictive. Might not be so bad if one plans ahead to save the money instead of jumping up on that hedonistic treadmill, but the treadmill is always there, and always tempting.
I probably save more money now than I did back as a six figure tech worker, because I adjusted the spending part of the equation dramatically.
For me, fancy jobs meant fancy lifestyle. I would often justify silly spending just because I was enduring the job. You're also around more people who spend lots of money. It was a bad influence on me.
I know a few people who manage getting the bag while keeping expenses under control, but I know myself and I know I'm not one of them
It is honestly pretty crazy! I'd be interested to hear more takes from others who are full time indie making a living and how they feel. I love doing my side indie projects, but pretty happy with being full time at a bigger company. I'm sure having that experience of doing your own thing and that level of freedom changes that view quite a bit.
I've never seen any solo founder with $10k and above MRR give up their entire startup to take up a job.
I just got an offer of a 30% increase and and might turn it down. It's wild out here.
My hope is to leverage it for more at my current job where the pace of work is chill enough that I still have the energy to indie hack on the side. We'll see how it goes. Worst cast, my salary in 2022 will be a good bit more than 2021
I agree, hope someday the market will be able to change, but I don't think I'll see it. I know many talented and amazing people destroyed by race for money, and this fact upsets me every time I think about it. We can't get rid of this because it's a system that doesn't let us do things we want and have voting rights. Please don't tell me that I'm living in an illusion because I work as an HR and know this topic a lot. When an employee comes to our company, they must pass the PSI Screening first because I need to know their capabilities to know what project fits therm better. So many people are depressed and in an emotional burnout, you can't even imagine.
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I would love to go to work for you, but now it's so easy to make money on the casino that I'm too lazy to even try a regular job, so let others
Or - start freelancing. You can easily make six figures while freelancing part-time as a SWE and still have time to work on your own projects. This also has the benefits that you can work on and off on your projects for longer time periods.
I know people making 200k+ by only using nocode
For those of us who don't speak American, what does high six figures mean ?
x00.000/year where x is integer and > 3
As someone that is hiring; don’t be afraid to put that failed or stagnant project on your resume/CV.
It’s a massive positive to hire someone that has been in the dirt working and trying out things. Gotten messy.
The craziest thing is just how different things are in the EU compared to US, from what I can tell. I think the EU has drastically lower salaries and it's not clear to me why. Are they less capable of answering certain algorithm and data structures questions? Or is the demand not that high? It's something I've wondered a lot about, but haven't came up with any solutions.
Maybe a bit offtopic, but as an European, I can tell you I instantly reject interview requests if I find out I need to do some leet code style challenge, only to then style some buttons. And the same applies for most other developers I talk to here, either in my circle or among those I met at conferences/online events. Around me at least, leetcode & the likes are viewed as impractical annoyances and interviews requesting them are instantly turned down.
does this make europeans behave worse on average in interviews with algorithmic questions? maybe.
In terms of strictly differences in pay, cost of living in the EU differers from that in the US, and salaries equally so. Furthermore, companies in EU tech hubs (but not only) can always find developers for less than the average salary in the said tech hub.
You need very good developers in London, but everyone you find asks for +100k/year? Yeah, just hire someone from Serbia, or Romania, or any of the eastern countries. Most likely 90k is already a 3x increase for them, and they would be glad to relocate to London/Zurich/Berlin (though wages in Berlin are not that high :D) etc.
Greetings from Romania :)
The difference is not in European workers as compared to American workers. It is the way American companies are different from European companies.
A good part of the higher salaries in US are backed by the higher value of American companies. American companies have much better access to capital and are therefore more valuable, so they they can offer more to their employees. In addition to that, the American economy in all sectors rewards more the most valuable employees. For example, a top doctor will also earn more in the US than in Europe. On the other hand, in Europe it is easier to live decently at the low end of the scale.
EU just has more salary equality than the US. The chances of you being homeless & starving after going to the hospital or losing your job are lower in the EU(but not zero!)
Tech companies in the US have more money. The venture capital ecosystem here. A lot of the high salaries are from FAANG.
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