I haven't hit a point where I'd consider going back mainstream again - but I can tell you as someone that previously conducted many interviews for a great big(ish) tech company, we were routinely more impressed with candidates that showed tremendous ambition and a thirst to learn. These are two traits that are more or less required for any indie hacker.
Most people applying for the jobs I was on the interview panel for (mostly senior engineering roles, and a handful of junior) had great education and a lot also had great experience (5 years for senior, less for junior roles).. but few of those candidates really stood out above the rest. I swear I must've interviewed at least 100 people in my time there over the years.
Those that had a passion project outside of work, not related to their school work, were INFINITELY more interesting to us than the rest.
There are many reasons for this, among them: self starter, highly motivated, exposure to a greater number of trials and tribulations, wearing tons of different hats and more than anything having a huge amount of passion.
It also gave us something we can really dive into during the interview, and really get to know what drives them on a personal level.
These are the types of folks that really stuck out to us.
You have to remember, every dev has dreams. Even the ones who have been in the corporate working world since day one.
Every single one of them has that app they want to build. Or at the very least, has imagined building something of their own and the prestige and sense of accomplishment they would get from it. They just haven't pursued it, for one reason or another.
If you come in with a full blown SaaS you've built yourself from the ground up (and even better if you've had users, interaction with users and sales) - I can guarantee you they will want to hear all about it, if anything to just vicariously live through your story!
Indiehacking is hard mode. Always remember that. The skills and the things you learn are just as valuable as the MRR, if not more so!
You have to remember, every dev has dreams. Even the ones who have been in the corporate working world since day one.
This might be sort of true in theory, but in practice most people who work at big companies don't even have anything that comes up when you Google them. A lot of them are just a different sort of person.
When you are interviewing, you are selling yourself. When you are selling something, you are putting something on the market and there's a potential buyer sitting across the table from you.
We talk for days on end here at IH about knowing your market and the importance of it.
There's literally zero difference between selling yourself, and your experience, during an interview and selling an audience on a product. It all comes down to understanding who you're talking to.
Which is what I was driving at when speaking about dreams and aspirations.
I can see your concern though - you often times can't just Google someone just before the interview and get their life story. You can't figure out exactly what it is that drives them, and help them connect the dots with your indie hacking experience, convincing them you're the ideal candidate.
But.. there are clues. And this is where overall interpersonal communication and social skills come into play. Get them talking about themselves and the position that you are interviewing for. If they're open to a bit of chit chat before getting down to the hard hitting questions, get them talking. Ask questions.
It's like piecing together a puzzle, and seeing if you and your experience can help complete that puzzle.
What is their job title? Are they managerial? Executive? Lower level dev? What kind of questions and details have they been focusing on when talking with you? What were you talking about when their eyes lit up?
Do they seem to be a creative type, or more structured?
Are they "brass tax" or do they like small talk?
Are they enthusiastic when speaking with you, or fairly monotone?
I think my point here is that during an interview we are constantly broadcasting things whether we're aware of it or not, and that includes your interviewer.
As an indiehacker you'd probably have tremendous breadth of experience with your endeavor. If you can learn a bit more about who it is you're talking to, you can probably find something from your indiehacking experience that can captivate them and tilt things further in your favor.
Being an indie hacker isn't a silver bullet during interviews, even if I may have made it seem that way in my post above. There can be any number of reasons why you didn't get those jobs.
2 interviews is a pretty small sample size of interviews, keep plugging away. 3rd times the charm.
Always remember that when you don't get these jobs, it's not a knock against you, the company is just choosing whomever would best fit that particular role on that particular team.
This would be my answer as well. Did tons of interviews and those with entrepreneurial experience almost always do a lot better in the recruitment process than people without.
I would also like to add that more and more companies also find "failure" as an entrepreneur a worthwhile experience because that usually ensures that you are definitely not making those mistakes again.
It's not only about the results, it's about having the guts, grit, etc. to go the path of indiehacking in the first place.
It's not. I have twice failed with Indiehacks. Both times I was able to get back easily into mainstream. Since then I have failed 2 more times but this time I had family so spent 4+ years building on the sides.
My 5th effort is underway. I am following copycat model this time. Improvement of existing idea which I believe should be disrupted.
Never give up. If you have the skills and determination it's not difficult to get back and be hired.
In many instances that confidence radiates throughout the hiring process and will definitely leave an impression on the panelists. Also, the negotiation power this brings to the table cant be understated.
Thanks for asking this! It’s one of my biggest worries at the moment. It sounds like it’s not as big of a challenge to go back to a regular job as I thought. 😌
I've been an entrepreneur (not necessarily indie hacker) for 8+ years, but recently left my company and now have been applying as a senior software engineer for a couple of months. I almost always get invited to the first interview, and people find my background very interesting.
So, based on my experience, I would say it's even a plus if you're looking for a job after being an entrepreneur / indie hacker for a while.
I don't have any personal experience. But I can tell you that if I had to hire a developer them being an ex indie hacker would be a huge plus. A fully built SaaS is one of the best portfolio projects there is. It's even more impressive if it actually made money.
Small sample size, but in my experience it absolutely helped.
The main tip is you'll have a huge advantage if you apply to a company in an industry related to what you were doing as an indie hacker. And if you anticipate looking to be hired again reserve a month or so to research companies and do an extra project or two that more closely connects what you were indie hacking on with companies you're interested in applying to, especially something on the cutting edge/novel that the company would aspire to do.
Bonus points if you can somehow get the attention of that company so they've 'heard of you' by the time you interview.
Indie hacking is hard, so you'll build a deep, nuanced perspective that the hiring manager (assuming they are a SME) will appreciate.
I didn't find it to be very hard. No harder than looking fo a job any other time anyways.
I let an agency web dev job in May 2021. I'd been there for a little over 5 years, was feeling very burnt out with COVID, no seperation between work/life balance, and trying to work on the side on my personal project PLUS balance family life.
So I resigned, jumped right into working "full time" on Europtripr.com. The first few months went will, I felt really good about progress even though I felt I should have 'launched' something much sooner. But then I started to get stuck, demotivated, self-deprecating. I was much less productive for the following several months.
Needless to say, i burned through savings and my wife's goodwill and understanding, and in the end realized I had to go back to work or look for well paying freelance clients. I decided to do both: look for FT job and look for freelance clients. Whichever happened first and could realistically replenish our savings fastest, I'd do.
Well after being on my own for 10 months, it took less than 4 weeks to find a (seemingly) great job remotely at another web dev agency (so far with much less stress and time sensitive deadlines) at a substantial pay increase than my previous position.
Added bonus: after accepting this new job, I've ALSO taken on two relatively small-scale freelance projects at a great rate. Both are very low-key, seemingly low stress (so far) and STILL afford me a decent work life balance and the ability to work a couple hours on Eurotripr.com when the family goes to bed.
So, all in all, I'd say it was very easy to be hired again after (unsuccessfully) indie hacking on my own.
That being said, looking for a job is NEVER "easy" and can be a real soul crushing experience - just like indie hacking. I sent out a LOT of resumes, and received (relatively) little response back. I failed TWO coding tests and started to think I wasn't good enough to be doing this (I've been a web developer for 13+ years). But I continued to show up each day, put out resumes and cold emails for freelance client prospecting. I played the numbers game and it turned out ok.
ALSO: keep in mind, you don't have to Indie Hack INSTEAD of having a job. You can work a few hours after your job and not have to stress about money. @csallen has a great talk on this for Micro Conf (i think). I'd send you the link, but I have a meeting to go to for my new job :)
This is a great question that I have been asking myself since I am soon going to start looking for a job again... I had a great interview about it with Alex Friedman because she has created a platform for indie makers that are looking for a job.
I haven't quit any of my full time gigs, I just keep my side projects going at the same time. But what I notice when talking to recruiters and companies here in Sweden is that they focus almost solely on my work experience while ignoring side projects.
To me, a person having a few side projects would be a huge green light and strong signal to hire. Anytime a talk a company that doesn't seem to care about side projects I take that as a indication that we might not be a great culture fit for each other :)
I went through a pretty low point in my Indie Hacker journey in 2018. Trying to get a job after being on my own for 4 years was extremely challenging!
Getting in the door was the hardest part, but even after that it seemed like upper management was hesitant to hire someone who hasn’t had a job in the past 4 years.
I also wasn’t as sharp of a developer as someone who literally spent all day coding, like a typical dev would. I tried applying to more product management type of roles, but that didn’t go anywhere either because at that point I never actually managed people, because it was just me and my cofounder.
Today I think it would be a lot easier because the development market is just insane!
"You need to be prepared to justify that career gap"
If you can't justify/explain what you are doing, I think you're doing something wrong.
In the rest of the world companies also ask for this.
Just don't communicate it as a gap.
A gap is empty. It will suggest you did nothing.
Communicate it as you are working for your own company (entrepreneuring), which is essentially what you're doing.
I haven't hit a point where I'd consider going back mainstream again - but I can tell you as someone that previously conducted many interviews for a great big(ish) tech company, we were routinely more impressed with candidates that showed tremendous ambition and a thirst to learn. These are two traits that are more or less required for any indie hacker.
Most people applying for the jobs I was on the interview panel for (mostly senior engineering roles, and a handful of junior) had great education and a lot also had great experience (5 years for senior, less for junior roles).. but few of those candidates really stood out above the rest. I swear I must've interviewed at least 100 people in my time there over the years.
Those that had a passion project outside of work, not related to their school work, were INFINITELY more interesting to us than the rest.
There are many reasons for this, among them: self starter, highly motivated, exposure to a greater number of trials and tribulations, wearing tons of different hats and more than anything having a huge amount of passion.
It also gave us something we can really dive into during the interview, and really get to know what drives them on a personal level.
These are the types of folks that really stuck out to us.
You have to remember, every dev has dreams. Even the ones who have been in the corporate working world since day one.
Every single one of them has that app they want to build. Or at the very least, has imagined building something of their own and the prestige and sense of accomplishment they would get from it. They just haven't pursued it, for one reason or another.
If you come in with a full blown SaaS you've built yourself from the ground up (and even better if you've had users, interaction with users and sales) - I can guarantee you they will want to hear all about it, if anything to just vicariously live through your story!
Indiehacking is hard mode. Always remember that. The skills and the things you learn are just as valuable as the MRR, if not more so!
What an excellent comment!
This might be sort of true in theory, but in practice most people who work at big companies don't even have anything that comes up when you Google them. A lot of them are just a different sort of person.
When you are interviewing, you are selling yourself. When you are selling something, you are putting something on the market and there's a potential buyer sitting across the table from you.
We talk for days on end here at IH about knowing your market and the importance of it.
There's literally zero difference between selling yourself, and your experience, during an interview and selling an audience on a product. It all comes down to understanding who you're talking to.
Which is what I was driving at when speaking about dreams and aspirations.
I can see your concern though - you often times can't just Google someone just before the interview and get their life story. You can't figure out exactly what it is that drives them, and help them connect the dots with your indie hacking experience, convincing them you're the ideal candidate.
But.. there are clues. And this is where overall interpersonal communication and social skills come into play. Get them talking about themselves and the position that you are interviewing for. If they're open to a bit of chit chat before getting down to the hard hitting questions, get them talking. Ask questions.
It's like piecing together a puzzle, and seeing if you and your experience can help complete that puzzle.
What is their job title? Are they managerial? Executive? Lower level dev? What kind of questions and details have they been focusing on when talking with you? What were you talking about when their eyes lit up?
Do they seem to be a creative type, or more structured?
Are they "brass tax" or do they like small talk?
Are they enthusiastic when speaking with you, or fairly monotone?
I think my point here is that during an interview we are constantly broadcasting things whether we're aware of it or not, and that includes your interviewer.
As an indiehacker you'd probably have tremendous breadth of experience with your endeavor. If you can learn a bit more about who it is you're talking to, you can probably find something from your indiehacking experience that can captivate them and tilt things further in your favor.
Sadly, i went with that to two interviews and i didn't get it....
I'm sorry to hear that Michael!
Being an indie hacker isn't a silver bullet during interviews, even if I may have made it seem that way in my post above. There can be any number of reasons why you didn't get those jobs.
2 interviews is a pretty small sample size of interviews, keep plugging away. 3rd times the charm.
Always remember that when you don't get these jobs, it's not a knock against you, the company is just choosing whomever would best fit that particular role on that particular team.
This would be my answer as well. Did tons of interviews and those with entrepreneurial experience almost always do a lot better in the recruitment process than people without.
I would also like to add that more and more companies also find "failure" as an entrepreneur a worthwhile experience because that usually ensures that you are definitely not making those mistakes again.
It's not only about the results, it's about having the guts, grit, etc. to go the path of indiehacking in the first place.
100% agreed.
It's not. I have twice failed with Indiehacks. Both times I was able to get back easily into mainstream. Since then I have failed 2 more times but this time I had family so spent 4+ years building on the sides.
My 5th effort is underway. I am following copycat model this time. Improvement of existing idea which I believe should be disrupted.
Never give up. If you have the skills and determination it's not difficult to get back and be hired.
Well I've noticed it gives me leverage to ask for bigger deals and not give a damn about lesser ones. Does a world of confidence
Totally second this!
In many instances that confidence radiates throughout the hiring process and will definitely leave an impression on the panelists. Also, the negotiation power this brings to the table cant be understated.
Thanks for asking this! It’s one of my biggest worries at the moment. It sounds like it’s not as big of a challenge to go back to a regular job as I thought. 😌
If you've not (yet) had success as an indie hacker, it's probably not too hard going to get a job.
If you've had success, I'd guess it's extremely hard in most cases.
Mostly speaking for myself but I'm sure others have similar opinions.
I've been an entrepreneur (not necessarily indie hacker) for 8+ years, but recently left my company and now have been applying as a senior software engineer for a couple of months. I almost always get invited to the first interview, and people find my background very interesting.
So, based on my experience, I would say it's even a plus if you're looking for a job after being an entrepreneur / indie hacker for a while.
Thanks for sharing this!
I don't have any personal experience. But I can tell you that if I had to hire a developer them being an ex indie hacker would be a huge plus. A fully built SaaS is one of the best portfolio projects there is. It's even more impressive if it actually made money.
Small sample size, but in my experience it absolutely helped.
The main tip is you'll have a huge advantage if you apply to a company in an industry related to what you were doing as an indie hacker. And if you anticipate looking to be hired again reserve a month or so to research companies and do an extra project or two that more closely connects what you were indie hacking on with companies you're interested in applying to, especially something on the cutting edge/novel that the company would aspire to do.
Bonus points if you can somehow get the attention of that company so they've 'heard of you' by the time you interview.
Indie hacking is hard, so you'll build a deep, nuanced perspective that the hiring manager (assuming they are a SME) will appreciate.
Got a job again quick after 8 years self employed
It's very hard, especially if your goal is eventually to run your own business...
I didn't find it to be very hard. No harder than looking fo a job any other time anyways.
I let an agency web dev job in May 2021. I'd been there for a little over 5 years, was feeling very burnt out with COVID, no seperation between work/life balance, and trying to work on the side on my personal project PLUS balance family life.
So I resigned, jumped right into working "full time" on Europtripr.com. The first few months went will, I felt really good about progress even though I felt I should have 'launched' something much sooner. But then I started to get stuck, demotivated, self-deprecating. I was much less productive for the following several months.
Needless to say, i burned through savings and my wife's goodwill and understanding, and in the end realized I had to go back to work or look for well paying freelance clients. I decided to do both: look for FT job and look for freelance clients. Whichever happened first and could realistically replenish our savings fastest, I'd do.
Well after being on my own for 10 months, it took less than 4 weeks to find a (seemingly) great job remotely at another web dev agency (so far with much less stress and time sensitive deadlines) at a substantial pay increase than my previous position.
Added bonus: after accepting this new job, I've ALSO taken on two relatively small-scale freelance projects at a great rate. Both are very low-key, seemingly low stress (so far) and STILL afford me a decent work life balance and the ability to work a couple hours on Eurotripr.com when the family goes to bed.
So, all in all, I'd say it was very easy to be hired again after (unsuccessfully) indie hacking on my own.
That being said, looking for a job is NEVER "easy" and can be a real soul crushing experience - just like indie hacking. I sent out a LOT of resumes, and received (relatively) little response back. I failed TWO coding tests and started to think I wasn't good enough to be doing this (I've been a web developer for 13+ years). But I continued to show up each day, put out resumes and cold emails for freelance client prospecting. I played the numbers game and it turned out ok.
ALSO: keep in mind, you don't have to Indie Hack INSTEAD of having a job. You can work a few hours after your job and not have to stress about money. @csallen has a great talk on this for Micro Conf (i think). I'd send you the link, but I have a meeting to go to for my new job :)
This is a great question that I have been asking myself since I am soon going to start looking for a job again... I had a great interview about it with Alex Friedman because she has created a platform for indie makers that are looking for a job.
I haven't quit any of my full time gigs, I just keep my side projects going at the same time. But what I notice when talking to recruiters and companies here in Sweden is that they focus almost solely on my work experience while ignoring side projects.
To me, a person having a few side projects would be a huge green light and strong signal to hire. Anytime a talk a company that doesn't seem to care about side projects I take that as a indication that we might not be a great culture fit for each other :)
It's easier.
I went through a pretty low point in my Indie Hacker journey in 2018. Trying to get a job after being on my own for 4 years was extremely challenging!
Getting in the door was the hardest part, but even after that it seemed like upper management was hesitant to hire someone who hasn’t had a job in the past 4 years.
I also wasn’t as sharp of a developer as someone who literally spent all day coding, like a typical dev would. I tried applying to more product management type of roles, but that didn’t go anywhere either because at that point I never actually managed people, because it was just me and my cofounder.
Today I think it would be a lot easier because the development market is just insane!
This comment was deleted 2 years ago.
"You need to be prepared to justify that career gap"
If you can't justify/explain what you are doing, I think you're doing something wrong.
In the rest of the world companies also ask for this.
Just don't communicate it as a gap.
A gap is empty. It will suggest you did nothing.
Communicate it as you are working for your own company (entrepreneuring), which is essentially what you're doing.