Have we become the product?
Hey folks,
I've been spending too much time on twitter/x lately where i've built up some opinions on the state of the indie sphere.
It seems to me that the majority of indie influencers' only successful product is something that directly monetizes the rest of us, with an online feed that eerily mirrors a forex "guru" or drop-shipper's feed.
They're hyping up the lifestyle to build an audience that they can then sell info products to like boilerplate, communities, icon sets, design kits, courses, curated website lists, etc...
Not to mention all the thread-bois or the linkedin-esque motivational content about working 24/7 and making it.
It's getting increasingly hard to find people building anything genuinely interesting that isn't just a quick money grab from other indie hackers.
The narrative is always the same
"i built 10 startups and now i make 50K+ per month so buy my course to learn how"
meanwhile the 50K is neither recurring nor from the 10 startups.
"I make 30K a month so buy my course on how to build saas to to gain financial freedom"
sure buddy
Obviously there's exceptions to the rule, but they're becoming exceedingly rare at this point.
My leading theory on why we don't see alternatives is that every time someone posts about a successful indie product, we end up with hundreds of copy cats within months. Just think about how many job boards or directories are out there.
I myself had a horrible experience with this back when i was working on StockAlarm (now acquired, back then was at 20K MRR or so), i posted about our growth here and within a few months we had half a dozen copy cats on the appstore with obviously plagirized content.
I suppose i'm looking for a general pulse check for those of us who aren't trying to sell to the community, how do ya'll feel about it?
🔥 Roast My Landing Page
The infamous "During the gold rush, sell shovels"
It's bound to happen in any "business model" that gets popular. I was in e-commerce in 2018-2020 and it was the same. At first, it was just people doing their thing then it turned into the current dropshipping guru thing
One thing to note is that there wouldn't be products without demand. A good chunk of people just notice opportunities and fill them.
I made a guide about Facebook ads (my #1 acquisition channel for my main app). I never planned to do it, but I saw people talking about ads on Twitter and asking for course recommendations.
I could have ignored the demand, but eventually, people would have bought a course anyway. I just canalized demand into my own product, and I made $32,000 from it (which is still less than my main app)
I also made SalesPopup. I didn't plan to launch it either, but again, I saw people talking about it and I just wanted to avoid having someone launch it before I did, so I ended up making it and it made $1000 in a month. If I didn't, someone else would have
I suspect a good chunk of products made for indie makers starts like that.
I'm not saying it's a good or a bad thing, it just is.
At least until we get full-funnel gurus selling a course "Make millions with SaaS", then it's another story
Fair enough but i guess in your case you made a successful product, then sold a guide on how to run ads because that's what made you money with your already existing product, i know the line is fuzzy but in my opinion that somehow makes it a ton better.
Same thing with sales popup which i thought was a genius move.
I never share anything about what I'm building
I do enjoy some of these communities though and try to share what I've learned along the way
A lot of indie hackers on Twitter I've seen are actually just like any other influencer, their main goal is capturing attention. At that point they can sell anything they want, they just slap on some catchy tagline
It's easy to see they're selling the life style when a huge portion of what they talk about is
Just how they hop from one country to the next they hop from whatever the hot thing is to the next. Not many talk about long term vision, building a legacy, providing for community or family
Couldn't agree more with this post.. The thread-bois get to my nerve so much
we've somehow adopted the mentality that linkedin cringe is the only way to succeed
I'm not using Twitter/X myself, hence I'm not in any of those bubbles there, but I noticed a lot of products targeted for indie hackers on this platform as well, especially in the comment section. In general, I don't mind and self-promotion can be okay if it adds value, but occasionally it just feels like an ad "Hi, I also struggled with problem X to do Y, so I build Z" - without exchanging thoughts and ideas and engaging in a meaningful discussion, but that's actually what I signed up for.
Interesting theory, but I don't have any opinion on that. Sometimes it's difficult to tell what's an original idea, how many people have the same idea, or who copied who. Competition from people with the same idea and potential copy cats are factors that should always be considered when (or even before) building something. If it's easy to copy, one must find something else to differentiate their product.
it's all a fugazi Yahia
i love the word fugazi lmao
I think there's a lot of noise from Indie Hackers who are selling things to other Indie Hackers. It's to be expected, because their is a lot of need to learn what works, and if you're catering to Indie Hackers, then this is where you'll find them.
That said, there are still people making interesting stuff. Some of us aren't successful yet (myself included). Others are, but they're not as noisy. Again, not surprising if their target audience doesn't hang out here, or on Twitter.
You need to dig a little to find them. Here's one example:
https://www.indiehackers.com/post/from-illegal-immigrant-working-odd-jobs-to-11k-mo-web-hosting-platform-8rzPq0BjtyMbL2kqTA9t
I think you'll find more by digging through these featured articles.
Yeah its just i think this site shines best as a forum rather than just another polished blog. Agreed though there are some gems out there
I've found this to be true as well. 99% of the content is self-promotion or worthless. Unsure of where to find true indie community besides in person.
As for copy cats, that is why defense-ability of your product matters. If your product isn't defensible its only a matter of time before someone takes your lunch.
The problem is that by sharing numbers and insights online, you are reducing the defensibility significantly. You're basically giving away the knowledge that your niche has $$$ to spend and that to achieve PMF you just have to copy what i did.
Yep, "build in public" is a marketing choice. Not all products and companies - almost all products and companies - don't benefit from building in public.
I think part of the problem is that the people who are actually building interesting things are too busy to put out content.
agreed. idk how these people have time to send out 100+ tweets a day lol
Courses are for suckers.
Everyone knows that.
They target wantrapreneurs, not entrepreneurs.
Entrepreneurs are too busy taking action to have time to sit down and study a course.
We're either too busy building the product or marketing it.
If you find yourself thinking of buying a course or following one of these snake-oil salesmen for any reason other than pure entertainment, I have bad news for you, buddy...
I think as long as something can bring value to people, it can be priced. However, I also dislike false advertising! 😶🌫️
It's all about marketing to me. And it came to this naturally. Not only your products promotion but your own promotion as a solo entrepreneur is also important. This is similar to popular singers sells more or a brand can make you buy it's product.
I see nothing wrong in that although I don't personally share financial tweets.